Inspired For Some Plants! HELP PLEASE

[abz]

Hi people,

I've been running my 180ltr tank for just over a month. I have around 50 small fishes consisting of mainly neon tetras and barbs. This is my first tank and I've been inspired to put live plants into it after looking through the forum and the planted tanks website. I am a beginner (only used plastic plants) so any help/advice to make my idea a reality will be most appreciated.

Idea

I would like to plant around a quarter of my tank, specifically a triangle (60cm x 60cm) where the three live plants are placed in the corner of my tank (pics below *the big plant is plastic*). I was thinking of some larger plants at the back, some smaller in the middle and at the front I would love to have a lawn look where the gravel and the planted area will meet. I am thinking of buying all the plants I need from the planted tanks website.


Thats the idea but I have a few questions before I get carried away...

1) Will the stones/gravel I have be okay for plants? I feel they are too big for the roots to thrive, any suggestions on what to do/buy will be much appreciated...

2) Can I place all the plants into the tank while the fish are still in there, also by placing all the plants will this affect the water properties in anyway?

3) I would like a lawn look where the rocks and the planted area will meet, which plant can I use also how would i go about planting this (again thinking about the gravel)?

4) How many plants would I need to fill this corner? (I was thinking of buying a 20 bunch deal) Also which plants would people recommend for a beginner?

5) Is there anything else i should consider before I place my order?

6) The 3 live plants as seen in the pics are from my LFS as a freebie, but unfortunately they are starting to turn brown on the tip of the leaves only after placing them in a week ago. help!
They are bunched together...would be a good idea to take them apart and place them into the gravel...or is it best to leave them bunched up...

Sorry for the trivial questions.....feel like a complete noob   

thanks

abz

[nelson]

Can you do your pics bigger,say 800x600 ish.

Are you going to be using co2 ?.

[abz]

I would like to keep the costs down so i guess i don't want to use co2...but i may still be open to the idea depending on the circumstances.

Sorry about the bad quality of the images...

[Sparkyweasel]

Hi and welcome. Here are my thoughts;

1) Although some plants do best in fine gravel or sand, plenty of plants will be just fine with your gravel. If you set up another tank in the future a smaller substrate might be nice, but I wouldn't go to all the trouble of changing what you have now. One question is; how deep is the gravel layer? If it's too thin, and you need to add more, you could move what you have into deeper regions, and fill in the gaps with a finer gravel to give you more options. You need about 4cm deep at the front to about 8cm at the back or more.

2) The fish will soon get over the disturbance. Plants are best rinsed in case of any residues of disinfectant used to treat them during importation. They shouldn't adversely affect your water quality/chemistry.
What may affect your water is those seashells. Are they real? If so they will dissolve minerals into the water, increasing the hardness, which is not good for most fish, including the one in your pics. Also I think I can see two Red-Finned Sharks. They may get quite territorial as they grow bigger and start to squabble. You may need to re-home one of them.

3) Lawn/carpeting plants that should do well in coarse gravel are Chain Swords, Echinodorus tenellus or E. quadricostatus. If you added a patch of sand, Hairgrass should also be OK. Others will probably add their suggestions to these.
Some other carpeting plants would need CO₂ and/or high-intensity lighting to thrive.

4) Depends how fast you want to fill it :) The 20 bunch deal would give you several species and you would find out which like your conditions; those that really thrive will spread and fill your space, or you can speed things along by ordering more of the successful species. Some may not thrive, but you haven't lost much this way.
 I always recommend Amazon Swords, Echinodorus paniculatus or E. bleheri, which seem to do well in almost any conditions, and Aponogetons, which grow from a 'bulb'. This allows them to give you a good display from their previous treatment even if you tank isn't ideal for them; and if it is, they will continue to show well for years. Aponogeton crispus, A. longiplumulosus, and A. ulvaceous are all straightforward, the Madgascar Lace Plant, A. madagascariensis needs a bit of TLC. Pop a fertiliser tablet near any bulb when you plant it, and replace it as often as the makers recommend.

5) Remember you can claim a discount for being a member here :)

6) Dying leaves may just be from the shock of moving in, in which case the plants will soon recover.
 They will do better if you separate the bunches. If the bottom of the stems is rotting, trim off the all the bad parts and the healthy parts should recover and take root.

Hope this helps; I'm sure you'll get lots more advice, and don't hesitate to ask any more questions, that's what the forum is for.

[abz]

Thanks for your informative reply.

The gravel layer is is only around 1-2cm deep on average. So i guess i will need to buy something to fill it out. If I'm going to buy some more gravel I might as well get smaller finer gavel or even sand...but how can put it into the tank without having to empty the tank out first?
Which would be better sand or fine gravel? Or is there something I could buy from the planted tanks website which will be better than both?

I was keen on using moss for the lawn...but i also quite like the hair grass, so i guess I might be buying sand...my main concern is how can place it on top of the gravel without emptying the tank...any suggestions...

Thanks for the recommendations...I really like the Aponogeton Ulvaceus, I will defo be buying those...and i think i will buy a 20 bunch deal and let the guys at planted tanks know about the pics Ive uploaded and let them decide which will be the best for the tank.

The plants that i was complaining about turning brown have these white long things dangling down...what are they and what do i do about it?

Will I need to have CO2 and use fertilisers?

I've taken out the seashells, which are real...thanks for that heads up
I've got 3 rainbow sharks...atm they don't seem to be fighting a lot but they are territorial...i will need to do something about it...

Many thanks for your help...
Keep it coming lol 

[Sparkyweasel]

I was thinking you could push the gravel towards the back to get a deeper layer there, leaving a bare area at the front, then fill the bare part with sand. Wash it well, and use something like an old mug to put it in place. But as your gravel layer is so thin, you could just put the sand on top, all over.
You could use a fancy substrate instead of sand, but some-one else can probably give you better advice about those.

The white threads on your plants are roots, 'adventitious roots'. Lots of water plants have them on the stems as well as the 'normal' underground roots. They help the plant to take up water and dissolved nutrients.

CO₂ is not essential for the plants we have mentioned, but would increase the number of species you could grow. You can always add it later on. Fertiliser is a good idea; your fish will provide much of your plants' needs, but not everything they need for fast, strong growth, especially the Aponos, which will start well using the reserves in the 'bulb' but need plenty of food to carry on.
Aponogetons, swordplants and others that grow a rosette of leaves generally like fertiliser in the substrate for the roots to take up (eg tablets), stem plants generally make more use of nutrients dissolved in the water (liquid or dry powder fertilisers). I would definitely give the Aponos and hairgrass some tablets, and start using powders/liquid if the stem plants are not growing well.

I had an A. ulvaceous from Planted Tanks, after about two weeks it about half-filled a three-foot tank. It's not well displayed in the pic, it was an emergency home when another tank cracked 
You can see it at the bottom of this thread;
http://www.talkaquatics.com/index.php/topic,751.0.html

[abz]

Again thank you for your reply 
I hope that my plants will have the same positive growth like that.

I guess my next step is to decide on what to place on top of the gravel; sand or another substrate. To be honest I can't really find anything online that makes much sense. Which would people recommend I should place on top of the gravel, I am slightly partial to using sand but ofcourse I will need something to fertilise the plants too...very confused 

[frosties]

abz,

As I said on the phone - the best way to introduce sand or gravel now is when it is washed - use a short pipe = about 4 to 6 cm in diameter (get it from B&Q) and pour the sand / gravel into it... move this around your tank where you want the sand / gravel to lay. This will reduce cloudiness and be quite easy to do...

As for the plants - at this stage - I would only recommend Echinodorous Bleheri - which is commonly sold as Amazon sword... plus Moss (Java or mini christmas) plus anubias...
With the gravel you have - forget any carpeting plants... the gravel is too big to support it correctly. We will need to know (by email) as soon as you order so we can ensure we can supply you plants that may live ok in that substrate...

Note - moss and anubias - these are normally tied to a rock or wood - but will survive in your tank on top of the substrate so long as you dont bury them.

[Sparkyweasel]

I forgot about the pipe trick; I've done that before, but usually I haven't got a bit of pipe handy. If you get some that fits tightly over the end of a plastic bottle, you can make funnel to get the sand into the pipe by cutting the bottle down. I once used a gravel cleaner as the funnel and it's attached siphon tube as the pipe, but it's a bit too small and progress is really slow.

[abz]

So today I went out and bought some fine gravel...the pipe trick was working but just took too long so instead i opted to use a mug. The water didn't go cloudy at all so very pleased with that. The depth I think should also be fine, 8cm at the back and 3cm at the front.

I might actually be ready for some plants...

Now that you can see the finer gravel which plants would you recommend to buy, also which plant will be best for the lawn look.

Thank you for the help guys 

[Sparkyweasel]

That looks a lot better.
As for what plants to get, I would stick with the bargain bundle as a starting point, and an Aponogeton ulvaceus, because you like it and it's reliable and gives a lot of impact in a short time.
For carpet plants if Hairgrass takes your fancy go for it. Or in that nice large tank you could try some Hairgrass and some Chain Swords as well. Tony mentioned Anubias and mosses. Anubias are reliable and a good contast to most other plants, so if you like the look of them, get some - you won't be dissappointed. There are small, medium and tall species. Java Moss is also undemanding and can form a carpet (I haven't tried the Mini Christmas Moss myself) so again, if you fancy it give it a go. Amazon Swords are also very dependable.

Do you have any ideas for the layout? If you have a 'look' in mind that will affect your choices.
So will your personal likes and your budget. It's easy for me to spend some-one else's money. 

[abz]

So my student loan came through the other day.. loaded with money I did the obvious thing and went out to spend some of it. Well with my cash injection i've decided that i might as well plant the whole of the tank...I found a nice layout that i liked (below). I've made a start on making a similar layout but its not finished yet... suggestions welcome!

As for plants, I was thinking:

Front right: hair grass
Back right: Aponogeton Ulvaceus with some sort of moss (ideas?)
Left: 20 or 25 bunch deal (i'll let tony decided what to put there  ) to fill out the back, at the front perhaps chain swords with moss round towards the back.

Please let me know if my selection will work, also please do make comments/suggestions regarding the layout and plants which may look better.

Thanks

[Sparkyweasel]

That's a nice set-up you're taking inspiration from. You'll need to find a nice rock for the centrepiece (or wood for a variation). The plants we have been talking about are all quite easy to grow and not too fussy about conditions, and your bargain deal will be a mixture, some of which will probably do better than others; you can take cuttings from those, or buy some more of the same.
If you can get more than one portion of Hairgrass and Chain Swords they will fill the space quicker. Java Moss rarely fails.
Go for it!

[abz]

Hi all,

So its been a few weeks now...my order came through last week (unfortunately the box was totally open, I think everything was inside.... but no email/phone response from planted tanks!!).

Anyways my original layout went down the pan very fast when i received the 25 bunch deal! So i opted for a jungle look...Quite a few plants turned brown and flopped over or was eaten which is why the area around the filter looks empty. But tbh I am very pleased with the overall look of the tank. The fish seem to love it too! The plants are already starting to grow especially my original plants (Elodea Densa) and the purple plant at the front (which has seem to grow the whole height of the tank). I am looking forward to buying a few more hair grass and mud babies to fill out the front of the tank. Also perhaps a few more larger plants to hide the filter. Any recommendations?

Also, When i should think about trimming the plants?

So what do people think at my first attempt? It wasn't the look I had in mind at the start but in the end it all turned out for the best.

Critique is welcome, I'm always willing to learn and improve the tank! 

[ghostsword]

Ok, it looks great, but if you do not want to use CO2, those plants will soon die and mess up your tank.

The lily will not die, it will shoot to the top and do very well, but the rest will melt eventually.

Now why don't you replace those plants with crypts and ferns? Add some moss and you can have an amazing scape without, or with very little CO2.